Atheism is Foolish!

“A creation cannot create itself, from nothing. But that’s what the atheist believes–that nothing created everything from nothing. That’s a scientific impossibility, and only a fool would believe that.”

– Ray Comfort

Well said Mr. Comfort!!!

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14 thoughts on “Atheism is Foolish!

  1. The obvious response to Mr Comfort would then be, “What created your god if a creation cannot create itself from nothing?”

    This is just the old “god of the gaps” argument. There’s no need for gods anymore as we’ve used the scientific method to explain away most of their mysteries. And what remains will be solved by human creativity and insight into the natural workings of this beautiful universe we all share! Cheers!

    ~D~

  2. Can a creator create itself from nothing? Can nothing create a creator (and thus everything) from nothing?

    By tossing a “creator” in between nothing and creation, theists push the “first cause” question back one step, but in the end still face it–just like those foolish atheists.

    And quoting Ray “Bananas The Atheists’ Nightmare” Comfort about science and foolishness hardly enhances one’s effort to make a point.

  3. Darron,

    Who created God? The answer is: no one. Like Norman Geisler said, “[God] has always existed. Only things that had a beginning – like the world – need a maker. God had no beginning, so God did not need to be made.”

  4. Doug,

    I am not pushing the first cause idea. I am saying that everything that had a beginning had a cause. And, since the universe had a beginning, it also had a cause (which is God).

    To quote Norman Geisler, “God does not need a cause because he had no beginning.”

    And I just so happen to be quite fond of “Ray “Bananas The Atheists’ Nightmare” Comfort” :)

  5. Actually in quantum mechanics we have things that aren’t caused- they are, for all intents and purposes, causeless.

    Now quantum mechanics only applies to things less than the size of atoms… and the universe started less than the size of an atom…

    Now, I’m pretty sure that isn’t the current explanation for how the universe began. From what I have heard, the best theory is the universe is finite, but has no beginning. No, I am not an expert in physics- you will have to argue with Hawkins and reality for this one.

    As it is saying “God always existed” is eliminated by Occam’s Razor- why can’t the universe do the same thing? After all, we can’t trace back before the Big Bang- why does that have to be the beginning? Isn’t time tied to the universe itself?

  6. Samuel,

    Although I have not looked into quantum mechanics much, I highly doubt that there are particles that are not caused.

    In regards to why can’t the universe have always existed. I would say there are at least two reasons:

    1) According to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the universe is running out of usable energy. So if the universe is running down, it cannot be eternal. I found this illustration from Norman Geisler very helpful, “An old clock that gradually unwinds and has to be rewound would not unwind unless it had been wound up to begin with.” The universe is “unwinding,” it can only “unwind” if it was first “wound” by something.

    2) This quote is also taken from Norman Geisler, “A second argument that the universe had a beginning – and hence a beginner – comes from philosophy. It argues that there could not have been an infinite number of moments before today; otherwise today never would have come (which it has). This is because, by definition, an infinite can never be traversed – it has no end (or beginning). But since the moments before today have been traversed – that is, we have arrived at today – it follows that there must only have been a finite (limited) number of moments before today. That is, time had a beginning. But if the space-time universe had a beginning, it must have been caused to come into existence. This cause of everything else that exists it called God. God exists.”

    Both of those quotes are from the book “Who Made God? and answers to over 100 other though questions of the faith.”

  7. If you can conceive of something, anything (e.g., god) having no beginning, why not simply attribute that quality to the universe rather than to a god?

    To assert that the universe necessarily had a beginning and thus a beginner merely begs the question.

    As for the reasons offered for supposing the universe must have had a beginning, I think the most basic response is that we hardly have sufficient knowledge and understanding of the universe to say with any confidence that by its very nature it must have had a beginning.

    With respect to supposing the universe cannot be eternal because it is running out of usable energy, who says the universe cannot persist in such a state? Moreover, perhaps some fundamental property of the universe, manifesting itself only when energy and matter dissipate beyond some point, serves to rewind or restart things over and over and . . . . Along these lines, one theory explaining the perceived acceleration of the expansion of the visible universe is that space itself has some minute repulsive property that builds up as the universe and thus space expands.

    With respect to the time-must-have-had-a-beginning argument, again, I think this presumes a level of knowledge and understanding of time that we just don’t have. Indeed, some physicists and cosmologists theorize that time does not “exist,” rather it is merely a perception of our experience.

    No, the inescapable point is that if one can conceive of anything not having a beginning, then there is no reason that quality cannot be attributed to the universe itself, in which case, logically, there is no call for a separate “creator.”

  8. I would highly suggest for you, and any one else interested to read the book ““The Devil’s Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions.” by self-professed secular Jew and mathematics/philosophies teacher David Berlinski.
    This tells the story of a Jew who was forced to dig his own grave prior to being shot by a German soldier. Prior to being shot, the old Jewish man advised the German that “God is watching what you are doing.” The Jewish gentleman pointed what i think is the real problem with atheism. “If you have the time please check the book out

  9. Doug,

    Sorry for the late response…

    We have plenty enough information to determine that the universe had a beginning.

    Even if the universe could rewind itself (and that idea itself is pure speculation), that would only last for so long. Just like a bouncing ball eventually stops bouncing, the universe would eventually cease to rewind itself.

    Again talking about the amount of usable energy in the universe:
    “If the overall amount of actual energy stays the same [which it has] but the universe is running out of usable energy [which it is], it has never had an infinite amount – for an infinite amount of energy can never run down.” – Norman Geisler

    Ultimately, here is what it comes down to. The Bible says that God has clearly made Himself known through the universe (Romans 1:19, 20). But you are saying that this is not true. So either God is not telling the truth, or you are not telling the truth. Since the Bible was authored by the omniscient God, I have to believe that although you are currently not admitting it, God has made Himself know to you through creation.

  10. yhoshua,

    No worries about taking time. I’ve been known to get back to people long after they gave up on me.

    You are considerably more sanguine than many physicists, cosmologists, and philosophers about humankind having plenty enough information to determine that the universe had a beginning. See, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe.

    To the extent that it cannot be proven or concluded with confidence that the universe had a beginning, your argument is premised on much the same assumption as other forms of the first-cause argument, i.e., that the universe needs an explanation. For all we know, it may be that the universe simply is. Indeed, that is the very quality many theists attribute to god(s). If one can imagine that of god(s), one can imagine it of the universe.

    With respect to the thought that either I or God must be wrong, I trust that you recognize that that both begs the question and entails circular logic. I understand how the thought may come to mind if one already believes that God exists, but it just doesn’t serve as an argument for God’s existence.

  11. In regards to your comment: “For all we know, it may be that the universe simply is.”

    I would very much have to disagree with that statement, all scientific observation has pointed away from the idea the the universe just is, that it always existed – the simple observation that things go from order to disorder provides a great case for the universe needing a beginning. It seems to me that the idea of an eternally existent universe is all speculation, based on no evidence (kinda like evolution :)

    Ehhh… is using a building as proof for a builder, or a painting as proof for a painter implementing circular reasoning? Quite frankly I would think that the only reasonable explanation for a painting would be a painter, likewise with the building and the builder. And, when I am confronted with the grandness of all that I see around me, the millions of billions of galaxies (which would equal how many stars?), the complexity of life (even in its simplest of forms) the grand size of the whole universe in comparison to the minuscule size of atoms (and the parts they are made of); it seems that the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that all of this design had a Designer.

    And, if you want proof for Gods existence, what about the conscience (note, this not aimed at your intellect)… Have you ever told a lie? Stolen something (regardless of the value)? Looked at a woman with a desire to have sexual relations (outside of marriage)? If you are like me, the answer to those questions would all be a resounding “Yes!” So God sees you as a lying thief, and an adulterer in heart. When you stand before God on judgment day you will be guilty of breaking His Law, and the punishment for that is hell. Now I am sure that you have heard of Jesus before… He was God in the flesh, He came to earth and lived a perfect life. Then He died on a cross. When He died on the cross God actually poured out His holy wrath (that is, His just anger against sin) on Jesus. That way, if you turn from your sin (repent) and put your trust (faith) in Christ (to save you from yourself and hell; to save you to Himself), God will remove your corrupt heart (that is, your “self” that loves sin) and give you a new heart that loves Christ… then you will have all the proof you could ever need.

  12. yhoshua,

    I appreciate the thought behind your invitation, as I’m sure you mean well. It all strikes me as childish nonsense, though, so I will decline. I’ll remain true to my heart and my intellect and conduct my life and search for truth my way–without the slightest fear of the hell you posit. I find happiness, fulfillment, meaning, and interest in seeking to understand reality through reason. Feel free to try it, you’ll like it.

    I wish you well in your life’s journey as well.

  13. Doug,

    I greatly enjoyed and appreciated being able to discuss this topic with you… thanks very much for your thoughts. Unfortunately, staying true to your heart is just the problem.

    In spite of the promise stating that if you “will seek the LORD your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.” It also holds true that, “None is righteous [including yourself]… no one seeks for God [including yourself].” So, I guess I leave you with a (perhaps childish, and foolish sounding) warning:

    God “commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness.”

    Flee from God’s wrath – through repentance and faith in Christ – while you still have the time… I will definitely keep you in my prayers (as goofy as that may also sound).

    Sincerely,
    Josh

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