Debate Transcript (sort of)

Here is what I typed out to get my thoughts organized for the debate, it is a bit easier to read and follow that an outline, I also expound on the point “Why Atheists Do Not Exist” with an illustration.

Also, I do have the debate in .mp3 format, and am currently working on making that available.

Here is an approximate transcript of what I presented at the debate, again, it is a bit long, but, whatever:

Thanks – Aaron and Chris, for their time and work in putting this together. And Dr. Beckstrom for taking time to meet with us and to moderate this debate.

Andrew Fletcher said, “the greatest question of our time is, ‘Can man live without God?’ This is the most serious of questions – if Atheism is true, then that will greatly affect the way we live our lives. On the other hand, if Theism is correct, and more specifically Christianity. That will also greatly affect how we live.

So I would like to move on to a few introductory points and then we will begin.

One can approach this question in many different ways. One of them is through rigorous philosophical discussion, and that is cool. The problem with that is, that it ends up pitting one person’s philosophical ideas against another person’s philosophical ideas. And debates like that can end up making no difference whatsoever in your life. So, although Jordan and I will use logic and science to back up our claims, we will also address this issue from somewhat of an existential view point as well, in an attempt to make our arguments relevant to your life.

One last introductory comment and then we will proceed. In James 4:6, the Bible says that God “opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” So, this topic must be approached in a humble and open way, you won’t get anywhere if you come at this topic, riding on your high horse and in an arrogant manner, ‘cause then we won’t get anywhere. Again, God “opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” Now, a quick clarifying statement; this does not mean that you have to take your brains out. I am not asking you to check your brain at the door, by all means think about, wrestle and grapple with this issue, but all the while keep in mind that it is the humble to whom God gives grace.

Here is our outline; we have 3 main points, they are: 1) the non-existence of atheists – we would like to prove that atheists do not exist, atheists do not exist. Our second point is creation – that creation clearly testifies to a Creator, our final piece of evidence for God’s existence, it that of the conscience. So, our points are: 1) the non-existence of atheists; 2) Creation; and 3) Conscience.

Point number one: The Non-Existence of Atheists.

First, let’s define Atheism. Atheism literally comes from two Greek words. Alpha – is the Greek word for negative, or non. Theos – God. Atheism – Negative God, it is saying “there is no God,” it is not saying “I do not think there is a God” nor is it saying “I do not believe in a God,” instead, it is affirming the nonexistence of God. Well, we have just encountered a problem. You see, logic tells us that affirming the nonexistence of something is not possible. Let me explain: For me to say there is no such thing as a purple stone in all of the galaxies of the entire universe. I must know everything about the universe. Well, obviously that is impossible… basically what atheists are saying is this, they are saying, “I have infinite knowledge, to be able say to you that no one has infinite knowledge.” As apologist Ravi Zacharias says, “Atheism as a system, is self defeating….Atheism as a system is self defeating.” What does all this mean? There is no such thing as an atheist, so if you are not an atheist, what does that make you? It makes you an Agnostic, or someone who does not know whether or not God exists. So, atheists do not exist, therefore, the furthest away you can be from a belief in God is Agnosticism, stating that you don’t know if God exists. At the same time, it is also foolish to say that you “know that you can’t know” as that is also self defeating. So atheism as a system is self defeating.

I would now like to turn the floor over to Jordan, who will be presenting our second point – Creation.

In review – 1) Atheists do not exist; 2) Creation attests to a Creator and now we move on to our last point, namely, conscience, or the judge in the courtroom of the mind.

The Bible says that God has written His law on our hearts. This is made evident by our knowledge of right and wrong. The word “conscience” means “with knowledge,” when you break God’s Law, you conscience tells you – you sin “with knowledge.” Now, the Bible also says that, because we sin so frequently our conscience’s have become seared or deadened. So, what I am going to try to do is awaken your conscience. We will do this by looking over some of the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments are like a mirror – they show us what we really look like, in truth. This morning, one of the first things you probably did, was look in a mirror – why did you do that? You wanted to see what damage had been done over the night, that way you could clean yourself up before you went public. The 10 Commandments reflect what we are in truth – when we are exposed for who we really are, and it won’t be the prettiest sight. When we see how dirty we are we may want to break the mirror or throw it away, but I ask that you bear with me, and lend me your full attention, as this is by far our most important point. Here we go:

9th – You shall not lie. Have You Ever Told A Lie? Regardless of its color. – If you have lied what does that make you? It makes you a liar.

8th – Have you Ever Stolen Anything? Regardless of its value. Stealing is defined as taking something that is not yours, without permission. So, if you have stolen something, what does that make you? It makes you a thief.

3rd – You shall not take God’s name in vain. Have you ever done that? It’s called blasphemy, think about it, you have taken the name of the God who gave you life, and who is currently allowing you to live, and you have used it as a curse word, to express disgust. The Bible says that, God “will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.”

And finally, the 7th commandment. Jesus said, “You have heard it said of old, ‘you shall not commit adultery,’ but I say unto you, whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Have you ever looked with lust? I know I have, who hasn’t.

So, if you have broken those commandments, you are a self admitted Liar, Thief, Blasphemer, and an Adulterer in Heart. And you have to face God on judgment day, whether you believe in Him or not. If God gives you justice, you will end up in hell, because you have sinned against an infinitely Holy God, you deserve an infinite punishment. Now, you may say, “I don’t believe in hell” Well, frankly that does not matter – if I step out onto the highway, with a truck headed for me and say “I don’t believe in trucks” it is not going to matter – my belief does not affect reality.

Hopefully, your conscience has been stirred by the Commandments. Now, you say, “Come on, I want real proof of God” well here it is. 2000 years ago Christ came to earth – 100% God and 100% man. He lived a sinless life and was crucified. When he was crucified, He was taking the punishment for our sins, yours and mine. So, here it is… through repentance and faith, God will make Himself know to you; repentance – turning from sin, and faith, putting your trust in Christ to save you – God will show Himself to you. The Bible says that if you “seek God diligently, with your whole heart, you will find Him” So, if you really want proof of God, you must seek Him for yourself – listen to this – if Jordan and I can argue you into a belief in God, then a person who is smarter than us can just as easily argue you out of a belief in God. That is why you must act, you must seek God, and trust me, if you do, you will find Him.

In summary: Number one, there is no such thing as an atheist. Number two, creation clearly proves the existence of a Creator. And finally, conscience. God has written His law on your heart, and if you will respond, with repentance and faith, seeking Him, He will make Himself known to you. Thank you.

3 thoughts on “Debate Transcript (sort of)

  1. Problem with point number one- afirming the nonexistance of something is impossible… unless it is logically impossible OR has a given time and location. God happens to fit both (he is supposed to be everywhere and everywhen).

  2. God is logically possible. It would only make sense if God was omnipresent (if He wasn’t, He wouldn’t be God), and that He abides outside of time, as He is the One who created time.

  3. Nope. Still doesn’t work. God can’t be inside the universe and not inside the universe. Logic basis- you can’t be a and not a similtaniously.

    Also there is the God created time… which is impossible. Time is a property of space. However God is supposed to exist before either…. which is impossible- you can’t have things exist and time pass before time exists!

    I’d go on, but you get the idea. The way theists get around this is by essentially saying God exists in a special realm which exempts him from the rules… which sort of ignores what logic applies to- this reality. Basically it is an attempt top claim exemption from the demands of logic and evidence.

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